Author Topic: Toyota horsepower  (Read 10920 times)

Michael_D4D

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Toyota horsepower
« on: January 17, 2012, 06:06:53 PM »
Why Toyota has less horsepower and torque compared to other leading brands?

dtkiko

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 493
    • View Profile
Re: Toyota horsepower
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2012, 06:40:13 PM »
Why Toyota has less horsepower and torque compared to other leading brands?

Sir, it's where the "useable" power and torque is LOCATED along the powerband (rpm-range) that matters most, NOT the peak torque and horsepower.... Also, it's how the engines are "boosted".

Would you go by those high-boost/ high rail-pressure smaller engine like those Japanese 2.5-litre making 174 or 176 peak hp at screaming diesel-revs of 4000 rpm than the non-high boost, somewhat detuned 3.0 D-4D (1KD-FTV) engine that makes a decent 163 peak hp at relatively low rev of 3400 rpm and distributing heaps of 343 Nm of pulling-force WIDELY from 1400 rpm all the way to 3200 rpm? That means whether you ease the throttle-pedal in between those rev-range, you are ASSURED that the peak torque is there.

In comparison to the 3.0 D-4D, one of those smaller 2.5-litre engine mentioned above will only provide you its peak torque of 403 Nm at a single-spot along the rev-range, i.e. only at 2000 rpm, and then it falls off sharply along the rev-range. The other one produces 350 Nm torque at a high-rev of 3500 rpm. And it only makes 250 Nm starting at 1800 rpm.

Also, would you substitute DISPLACEMENT for BOOSTING? ---- e.g. bigger engine that is not boosted too much against a smaller engine that has an increased or high boost pressure? The 2.5-litre Navara, as an example, its rail-pressure is NATURALLY very high such that when you tune it for more power like mating it with a diesel EFi tuning chip like RaceChip Pro or Unichip, the rail has to be strengthened/ modified.

Concerning the non-intercooled and non-VGT 2.5 D-4D (2KD-FTV), on the other hand, that we have here in most part of SE Asia, it's torque is responsibly placed at 1600 rpm up until 2400 rpm. Although by paper it is just 260 Nm torque, it is tappable and sizeable along that rev-range, that is why it is fuel-efficient as well. What more if Toyota mate it with an intercooler? ;) ....The upgraded 2KD-FTV, which is equipped with a VGT, is in Thailand. It makes more power and torque than our 2.5 D-4D. Nonetheless, just like the older 2KD-FTV, Toyota located the peak torque responsibly at low-rev of 1600 rpm all the way to 2400 rpm. Compared again to the other two Japanese 2.5-litre i mentioned, this updated 2KD-FTV in Thailand is also not highly-boosted.

Now, if you compare the typical Japanese diesels that we have here in Philippines against the Koreans, the answer lies in the technology being provided by the Koreans at a cheaper production cost on their part compared to the Nippons. The Koreans are using 3rd-generation diesel CRDi engines along with 3rd-generation turbochargers (eVGT) that's why their cars have superior powerplants than the typical SE Asian-issued Japanese diesels, AT ALMOST THE SAME PRICE.

The Japanese, in comparison, are still using 1st-to-2nd generation diesel CRDi (just like the Toyota 1KD-FTV, Mitsubishi 4D56, Isuzu 4JJ1-TC standard etc) coupled with 1st generation VGT's while some are even using the old ones, wastegate turbochargers, like Isuzu Motors for its Philippine-issued diesel engines....
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 07:10:41 PM by dtkiko »

Jal

  • The Curious Kid
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 95
    • View Profile
Re: Toyota horsepower
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2012, 11:33:05 AM »
Why Toyota has less horsepower and torque compared to other leading brands?

Sir, it's where the "useable" power and torque is LOCATED along the powerband (rpm-range) that matters most, NOT the peak torque and horsepower.... Also, it's how the engines are "boosted".

Would you go by those high-boost/ high rail-pressure smaller engine like those Japanese 2.5-litre making 174 or 176 peak hp at screaming diesel-revs of 4000 rpm than the non-high boost, somewhat detuned 3.0 D-4D (1KD-FTV) engine that makes a decent 163 peak hp at relatively low rev of 3400 rpm and distributing heaps of 343 Nm of pulling-force WIDELY from 1400 rpm all the way to 3200 rpm? That means whether you ease the throttle-pedal in between those rev-range, you are ASSURED that the peak torque is there.

In comparison to the 3.0 D-4D, one of those smaller 2.5-litre engine mentioned above will only provide you its peak torque of 403 Nm at a single-spot along the rev-range, i.e. only at 2000 rpm, and then it falls off sharply along the rev-range. The other one produces 350 Nm torque at a high-rev of 3500 rpm. And it only makes 250 Nm starting at 1800 rpm.

Also, would you substitute DISPLACEMENT for BOOSTING? ---- e.g. bigger engine that is not boosted too much against a smaller engine that has an increased or high boost pressure? The 2.5-litre Navara, as an example, its rail-pressure is NATURALLY very high such that when you tune it for more power like mating it with a diesel EFi tuning chip like RaceChip Pro or Unichip, the rail has to be strengthened/ modified.

Concerning the non-intercooled and non-VGT 2.5 D-4D (2KD-FTV), on the other hand, that we have here in most part of SE Asia, it's torque is responsibly placed at 1600 rpm up until 2400 rpm. Although by paper it is just 260 Nm torque, it is tappable and sizeable along that rev-range, that is why it is fuel-efficient as well. What more if Toyota mate it with an intercooler? ;) ....The upgraded 2KD-FTV, which is equipped with a VGT, is in Thailand. It makes more power and torque than our 2.5 D-4D. Nonetheless, just like the older 2KD-FTV, Toyota located the peak torque responsibly at low-rev of 1600 rpm all the way to 2400 rpm. Compared again to the other two Japanese 2.5-litre i mentioned, this updated 2KD-FTV in Thailand is also not highly-boosted.

Now, if you compare the typical Japanese diesels that we have here in Philippines against the Koreans, the answer lies in the technology being provided by the Koreans at a cheaper production cost on their part compared to the Nippons. The Koreans are using 3rd-generation diesel CRDi engines along with 3rd-generation turbochargers (eVGT) that's why their cars have superior powerplants than the typical SE Asian-issued Japanese diesels, AT ALMOST THE SAME PRICE.

The Japanese, in comparison, are still using 1st-to-2nd generation diesel CRDi (just like the Toyota 1KD-FTV, Mitsubishi 4D56, Isuzu 4JJ1-TC standard etc) coupled with 1st generation VGT's while some are even using the old ones, wastegate turbochargers, like Isuzu Motors for its Philippine-issued diesel engines....

Very informing. :) Thanks, Mr. dtkiko.
myi-vtec goesbwaAAAh!

henryshenoy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Toyota horsepower
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2012, 08:39:48 PM »
True, seems you researched a lot on this.
Laminate Flooring durable and easy for maitainance

ArturoWaltz

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Re: Toyota horsepower
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2012, 04:31:10 PM »
that was a very informative. really thanks for this one. i learn more about the automotive parts of toyota.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 11:30:15 AM by ArturoWaltz »

manilyn17

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
    • bahayonline
Re: Toyota horsepower
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2012, 04:53:48 PM »
yes! i also learn more about the automotive parts of toyota.

dherish09

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
    • Madhel Rivadeneira
Re: Toyota horsepower
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2012, 12:02:03 PM »
wow nice information :)

thiluxer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Toyota horsepower
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2012, 08:53:21 PM »
4. INJECTOR
4.1 Change Items
􀁺 The injectors used with the 1KD-FTV and 2KD-FTV engines have been changed from the G2 type to the
G3 type. In comparison to the G2 type injector, the G3 type injector has the following characteristics:
• The nozzle shape, and shape of the high-pressure seal service have been changed, resulting in a more
high-pressure resistant structure.
• The G3 injector is more highly responsive due to changes to the nozzle and solenoid valve.
􀁺 In consideration of the mounting measurements, the overall length for the 295050-008# injector (for use
with cylinders 1 and 2 in the DYNA) has been made shorter by 5.5 mm.
Q004462


1.1 OUTLINE
􀁺 Minor changes have been made to the TOYOTA LAND CRUISER, PRADO, DYNA, and IMV. As a result, a
portion of the Common Rail System (CRS) equipped with the 1KD-FTV and 2KD-FTV engines has
changed. The construction, operation, and control of main CRS components (supply pump, injectors, rail)
are identical to the components described in the previously issued "Common Rail System for TOYOTA
HILUX/KIJYANG INNOVA/INNOVA 1KD/2KD (Doc ID: 00400077)". Primary changes and additions are
listed below.
• The supply pump Suction Control Valve (SCV) has been changed from the SV2 type to the SV1 type.
(refer to P1-6)
• The rail pressure limiter has been replaced with a pressure discharge valve. (refer to P1-8)
• The injectors have been changed from the G2 type to the G3 type. (refer to P1-9)
• Microinjection quantity learning control, and wide-range cylinder correction control have been added to
injector control. (refer to P1-11)
1.2 Applicable Vehicles
1.3 Applicable Product List
LAND CRUISER PRADO
Vehicle Name Engine Type Engine Displacement Remarks
LAND CRUISER PRADO
1KD-FTV 3.0 L
DYNA August 2009

patrick_j

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Re: Toyota horsepower
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2012, 09:56:19 AM »
4. INJECTOR
4.1 Change Items
􀁺 The injectors used with the 1KD-FTV and 2KD-FTV engines have been changed from the G2 type to the
G3 type. In comparison to the G2 type injector, the G3 type injector has the following characteristics:
• The nozzle shape, and shape of the high-pressure seal service have been changed, resulting in a more
high-pressure resistant structure.
• The G3 injector is more highly responsive due to changes to the nozzle and solenoid valve.
􀁺 In consideration of the mounting measurements, the overall length for the 295050-008# injector (for use
with cylinders 1 and 2 in the DYNA) has been made shorter by 5.5 mm.
Q004462


1.1 OUTLINE
􀁺 Minor changes have been made to the TOYOTA LAND CRUISER, PRADO, DYNA, and IMV. As a result, a
portion of the Common Rail System (CRS) equipped with the 1KD-FTV and 2KD-FTV engines has
changed. The construction, operation, and control of main CRS components (supply pump, injectors, rail)
are identical to the components described in the previously issued "Common Rail System for TOYOTA
HILUX/KIJYANG INNOVA/INNOVA 1KD/2KD (Doc ID: 00400077)". Primary changes and additions are
listed below.
• The supply pump Suction Control Valve (SCV) has been changed from the SV2 type to the SV1 type.
(refer to P1-6)
• The rail pressure limiter has been replaced with a pressure discharge valve. (refer to P1-8)
• The injectors have been changed from the G2 type to the G3 type. (refer to P1-9)
• Microinjection quantity learning control, and wide-range cylinder correction control have been added to
injector control. (refer to P1-11)
1.2 Applicable Vehicles
1.3 Applicable Product List
LAND CRUISER PRADO
Vehicle Name Engine Type Engine Displacement Remarks
LAND CRUISER PRADO
1KD-FTV 3.0 L
DYNA August 2009

nice to know all these changes, but since when have these changes been applied?

thiluxer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Toyota horsepower
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2012, 07:49:51 PM »
these changes started in 2009. you can see it in toyota thailand websites but the big ?is when did tmpc start selling the upgraded engines and  units here in pinas. However, central diesel has confirmed d4d engines starting my 2009 has had the upgraded SCV's ( suction control valves ) that were the main culprit for the choking probs of 05 to 08 d4d equipped vehicles. You can google more about the SCV problems of early d4d engines sir.

Bpp0327

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Toyota horsepower
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2012, 08:32:30 PM »
for more informative hp & torque explantion.

http://vettenet.org/torquehp.html

jake_android

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: Toyota horsepower
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2012, 01:14:10 PM »
Why Toyota has less horsepower and torque compared to other leading brands?

Sir, it's where the "useable" power and torque is LOCATED along the powerband (rpm-range) that matters most, NOT the peak torque and horsepower.... Also, it's how the engines are "boosted".

Would you go by those high-boost/ high rail-pressure smaller engine like those Japanese 2.5-litre making 174 or 176 peak hp at screaming diesel-revs of 4000 rpm than the non-high boost, somewhat detuned 3.0 D-4D (1KD-FTV) engine that makes a decent 163 peak hp at relatively low rev of 3400 rpm and distributing heaps of 343 Nm of pulling-force WIDELY from 1400 rpm all the way to 3200 rpm? That means whether you ease the throttle-pedal in between those rev-range, you are ASSURED that the peak torque is there.

In comparison to the 3.0 D-4D, one of those smaller 2.5-litre engine mentioned above will only provide you its peak torque of 403 Nm at a single-spot along the rev-range, i.e. only at 2000 rpm, and then it falls off sharply along the rev-range. The other one produces 350 Nm torque at a high-rev of 3500 rpm. And it only makes 250 Nm starting at 1800 rpm.

Also, would you substitute DISPLACEMENT for BOOSTING? ---- e.g. bigger engine that is not boosted too much against a smaller engine that has an increased or high boost pressure? The 2.5-litre Navara, as an example, its rail-pressure is NATURALLY very high such that when you tune it for more power like mating it with a diesel EFi tuning chip like RaceChip Pro or Unichip, the rail has to be strengthened/ modified.

Concerning the non-intercooled and non-VGT 2.5 D-4D (2KD-FTV), on the other hand, that we have here in most part of SE Asia, it's torque is responsibly placed at 1600 rpm up until 2400 rpm. Although by paper it is just 260 Nm torque, it is tappable and sizeable along that rev-range, that is why it is fuel-efficient as well. What more if Toyota mate it with an intercooler? ;) ....The upgraded 2KD-FTV, which is equipped with a VGT, is in Thailand. It makes more power and torque than our 2.5 D-4D. Nonetheless, just like the older 2KD-FTV, Toyota located the peak torque responsibly at low-rev of 1600 rpm all the way to 2400 rpm. Compared again to the other two Japanese 2.5-litre i mentioned, this updated 2KD-FTV in Thailand is also not highly-boosted.

Now, if you compare the typical Japanese diesels that we have here in Philippines against the Koreans, the answer lies in the technology being provided by the Koreans at a cheaper production cost on their part compared to the Nippons. The Koreans are using 3rd-generation diesel CRDi engines along with 3rd-generation turbochargers (eVGT) that's why their cars have superior powerplants than the typical SE Asian-issued Japanese diesels, AT ALMOST THE SAME PRICE.

The Japanese, in comparison, are still using 1st-to-2nd generation diesel CRDi (just like the Toyota 1KD-FTV, Mitsubishi 4D56, Isuzu 4JJ1-TC standard etc) coupled with 1st generation VGT's while some are even using the old ones, wastegate turbochargers, like Isuzu Motors for its Philippine-issued diesel engines....

sir dtkiko, favor naman po..pwede po paki explain yung nakabold letters in tagalog?hehe
kasi po hindi po ako familiar sa terminologies nyo about engines..newbie here..thanks in advance sir!

mindkinetic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
    • View Profile
Re: Toyota horsepower
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2012, 05:13:47 PM »
@jake_android ang ibig sabihin ni sir dtkiko dito ay ang toyota ay di humihit sa natural na kakayanan ng kanyang makina ( toyota remained faithful to the useable power of the engine). ang ma diesel engine kasi jake_android madalas kesa hindi ay umaasa lamang sa turbo.halimbawa mas maliit ang makina ( displacement) mas mabagal at mas mahina ngayon upang mapalakas ang makina gumagamit ng "turbo" ang problema sa ganitong teknolohiya ay siguradong napupuwersa ang makina. samantalang ang mas malaking makina ( bigger displacement ) ay may natatanging lakas ng at hatak dito nanatili ang siyensa( science ) ng pagbuo ng sasakyan ng toyota.
BMW 320d idrive
Chevrolet Trailblazer 2.5 duramax
suzuki swift

jake_android

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: Toyota horsepower
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2012, 07:21:01 PM »
@jake_android ang ibig sabihin ni sir dtkiko dito ay ang toyota ay di humihit sa natural na kakayanan ng kanyang makina ( toyota remained faithful to the useable power of the engine). ang ma diesel engine kasi jake_android madalas kesa hindi ay umaasa lamang sa turbo.halimbawa mas maliit ang makina ( displacement) mas mabagal at mas mahina ngayon upang mapalakas ang makina gumagamit ng "turbo" ang problema sa ganitong teknolohiya ay siguradong napupuwersa ang makina. samantalang ang mas malaking makina ( bigger displacement ) ay may natatanging lakas ng at hatak dito nanatili ang siyensa( science ) ng pagbuo ng sasakyan ng toyota.

sir it means po ba na mas ok po ang toyota diesel engines today kasi bigger displacement tapos po meron na ding turbo?

mindkinetic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 760
    • View Profile
Re: Toyota horsepower
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2012, 11:01:34 PM »
@jake_android if truth be told mahirap sagutin basta basta ang tanong na yan for several reasons
1. you mentioned a car brand ( each brand can be better against another brand in more than just one reason and likewise be inferior vs another one in more ways than just one).
2. depende sa environmental factors
eg. for long distance drive a vehicle with bigger engine is relatively better, pero kung city driving mas ok na ang mas maliit na displacement lalo na sa stop and go traffic main reason ay yung fuel consumption
3. depende sa workload: halimbawa mas madami bang ikinakarga? paahon ba ang gagawing biyahe? ung mas malaking makina ang pwedeng asahan pero kung twisties( zigzag smaller engine will be more efficient)
however; theoretically an engine with bigger displacement will be more durable ( longevity) mas tatagal dahil it will operate within its power band. and that is where toyota truly shines.
BMW 320d idrive
Chevrolet Trailblazer 2.5 duramax
suzuki swift